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Francis's comments "'Empirical Fact' That Many Clergy Are Gay" (homosexuality)

posted by fezik82(R), Ohio, 07.05.2015

He laid out the same line of thought as the post that you attached from Steven Crowder who pointed out that the church in Idaho was given the choice to either perform a gay wedding or face fines and jail time... that's exactly what I got from the post from Lorenzo? It implied that the choice will be cave or crumble.

During the Holocaust, the Church went underground in Germany and Poland... but their numbers supported this activity. How will these small and scattered Evangelical churches hold up to that? He didn't suggest that all will fail, he said that some may stand firm... others will break down and devolve into "Christianised Individualism". I don't believe that suggested he "frowns on the individual Christians"? You obviously aren't opposed to that, but many Evangelicals would be. As he pointed out, there is no authority in interpreting the Scriptures when interpreting alone, and many Protestants recognize this.. hence Luther's Catechism, the Book of Worship, Calvin's and John Wesley's expositions, etc! The Scriptures were written to Church leaders... the Clementine Homilies were an early record of which portions were to be read to the masses. Not everything was meant for the masses... only the Church leaders, the masses were to rely on the leaders interpretation. The homilies weren't from some cooky off shoot sect writing for their own churches... Peter chose Clement to be bishop of Rome, and Paul said that his name is found in the book of life (Philippians 4:3). Interpretation is important and if you are equipped by God to interpret individually, and Lorenzo, Steve, and I are... why do we ever disagree? Doesn't the same God work in all of us? 1 Cor 1:10, for example, is clear that we are supposed to be of the same mind.. no divisions. Which of us is authorized to interpret the Scriptures? I believe none of us... those verses which speak against divisions were read to the same Masses that received the interpretation of the Bishops and priests that the New Testament Scriptures were written to.

You said, "He also seems to imply that roman catholic church is a safe zone; stick with her and your eternal life will be safe"... where do you see that?

You said, "yet the New Testament message is mostly to individuals ('work out your own salvation with fear and trembling')"... but you ignore the fact that he wrote that to the Church at Corinth. Was that really a slam against the Church structure? Keep in mind that it was written by the same one who had established that Church. I see that as a call for faith and deeds. Again... the New Testament was written to Church leaders, to read in the Churches.

The Church gives room for a conscience issue. You are hung up on the fantasy of 'individual Christians', but where do you truly find room for this in the New Testament? For an honest look, you may want to dig into the areas where the Churches had already been formed. You choose, "where two or three are gathered in my Name, there I am in the midst of them"... that didn't exactly seem like justification for a small group being named "church". Christ is with us when we are alone, when we are sleeping... a church is defined in the Bible in two different ways... one that is the body of Christ, yet remains united to Christ Himself only through participation in the physical Church (eg. 1 Corinthians 10:17).

I asked The Lord how much He loved me

He stretched out His arms and said, "this much"

Then He died for me


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