for Christians & Messianic Jews
Non-denominational
Home

Forum index page

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." John 3:16

Pro Rege (For the King)

         

Log in | Register
Forgot your password?





   

SDA's you are wrong! Saturday Sabbath & 10 Commandments are for Jews (Gospel of Jesus)

posted by fezik82(R), Ohio, 12.29.2014

I'm really hoping to not be difficult for you... but you have made this point a few times over the years and I have thought that I understood it and started to believe it too, but I just can't completely! I hope what I'm about to say doesn't align me with the SDA's!! I know your subject line is more specifically about the 10 commandments, but I wasn't sure from your post if you felt more that God asks us to abandon the entire law? Maybe I misunderstood and this whole post is a waste of time! Like you said, Christ was sent to the lost sheep of Israel... but I honestly don't feel that this means that they have different guidelines than we do. As Gentiles, I believe that we are engrafted into the family of Israel... we are the foreigners. God gave the same law to us as the Jews... the same laws were for all believers:

Leviticus 24:22 You are to have the same law for the foreigner and the native-born. I am the LORD your God.'"

Numbers 9:14 "'A foreigner residing among you is also to celebrate the LORD's Passover in accordance with its rules and regulations. You must have the same regulations for both the foreigner and the native-born.'"

Numbers 15:15 The community is to have the same rules for you and for the foreigner residing among you; this is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. You and the foreigner shall be the same before the LORD: 16 The same laws and regulations will apply both to you and to the foreigner residing among you.'"

Exodus 12:49 The same law applies both to the native-born and to the foreigner residing among you."

The rituals and preparations weren't something that the Jews had to do for themselves... Leviticus 23:2 says that the feasts are "feasts of the LORD", God said, "these are my feasts".. they are not Jewish feasts, they're God's feasts, I don't feel that much has been abolished but that they are for all of God's people. I saw a video once where it was pointed out that law was not 'replaced' by grace which really is what people seem to be describing when they explain why the law is no longer valid... the opposite of "law" is not "grace", but "lawlessness". Jesus said, "depart from me you workers of lawlessness", law and grace are not meant to contradict one another and Jesus apparently turned away those who reject the law. In 1 Corinthians 6:14, righteousness is contrasted from lawlessness which seems to reflect Romans 2:13 which says that it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. Romans 3:31 says that we uphold the law, not abolish it, "through faith". I feel that I am only beginning to understand how.

The law is not bad or meant to bring wrath, Psalm 1:1-2 says that those who find delight in the law are blessed. The law is a good thing, not a burden... it is all for God. The punishment was the burden and it was constantly a threat to most of Israel because they could not obey the law. Jesus said that heaven and earth would pass away before even a single dot was removed from the law, and He expounded on the law during the Sermon on the Mount which I feel would be entirely impractical if He was here to remove the law? Maybe the Sermon on the Mount is my biggest hangup... what do you feel His purpose was in explaining the law? I feel that we are trained to think that the law brings repression and bondage because we know the punishments that come from disobeying the law.. but I feel that the law is really meant to reveal true love (which I will try to explain in a minute).

One of the verses that I always think of when this topic comes up is Matthew 5:17 where Christ said that He did not come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. Jews in the time of Christ (and of course today) refer to the first five books of the Old Testament as "the law" (or, "Torah"). "The Prophets" in Jewish tradition refers to "the book of the twelve" (the minor prophets): Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, and Malachi... as well as the major, or "Latter", prophets (Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel), and the former prophets (Joshua, Judges, first and second Samuel, and first and second Kings). So when Jesus stated that He did not come to destroy the Law or Prophets... it seems quite possible that He was talking about the bulk of the Old Testament.

Jesus said that He did not come to destroy, but to "fulfill". The Greek word used for "fulfill" is πληρόω (plēroō) and in Colossians 4:12 in some translations (eg. KJV), this same word reads as "complete", which I feel gives a more full sense of the meaning implied by the word "fulfill" when used by Christ. Christ states that He is not going to abolish the Law or the Prophets, which (I believe) specifically calls out the majority of the Hebrew Scriptures, but He has come to fulfill them, to make them complete... to show us what they mean. The Scriptures find their end in Christ because He makes their meaning complete. In Luke 24:27 we find that Christ actually explained what was written about Him in all the Scriptures, "starting with Moses and all the prophets". The entire Old Testament testifies about Him, He completes them... He was the necessary tool for understanding what they truly meant in the first place.

I have heard that Jesus "nailed the law to the cross" so many times that I thought that it was specifically written out just like that in the Bible.. but it's not quite exact. The context of Colossians 2:13-23 seems to describe the record of debt being nailed to the cross... not the law. And then there's Christ stating that what summed up the law and the prophets is the command to love in Matthew 7:12... everything in the OT could be fulfilled if only the Jews had enough love, love for each other and for God. He said to love one another "as I have loved you".. St. Augustine noted that we don't need a command to make us love ourselves because we are naturally inclined to protect and care for ourselves, both are physical and our material needs (De bono viduitatis, xxi)... but we needed to learn love of others and God. So it seems to me that identifying the biblical definition of love is the key to the Scriptures and offers the most valuable insight into what Christ actually came to do!

The Jews didn't have enough love on their own... but through Christ's sacrifice, "love" is now divinely imparted according to Romans 5:5.. it says that love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit. God gave us the love needed to keep the law... so while it was impossible for the Jews to fulfill the law, "with God all things are possible". God's gift can't fail... we can obey the law, but if we should waver, the punishment has already been nailed to the cross. In Galatians 5:14, Paul said that the whole law is fulfilled if we can only keep the command to love our neigbors as ourselves... would God really nail that law to love to the cross? He expounds more in Galatians 6:2 that if we carry each other's burdens, we have fulfilled the law... he's showing us what true love is. We have to be there for each other, lean on each other! In writing to the Romans, he said that we must not owe each other anything but love... that we must do this to fulfill the law (13:8). Then he said:

The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,”a and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”b 10Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. (Romans 13:9-10)

Some claim that since men cannot possibly keep the law, then the law must have been abolished. The truth really seems to be that if Israel had only had enough love, they could have kept the law perfectly... that's why God gave us love with the New Covenant! Keep in mind that this very same Law demanded that the bones of the Paschal Lamb could not be broken, yet when criminals were crucified, the executioners final step was to break their legs so that they could not push up and relieve pressure from their chest. Jesus, however, bypassed this tradition of theirs because when His side was pierced, water poured out with the blood and because of this they knew He was dead already and would not need to have His legs broken. John explained the essential meaning:

"these things took place for the scripture [law] to be fulfilled: 'Not a bone of his will be broken.'” (John 19:36)

But the sacrifice was already made, His bones were not broken because He was already dead. The need for a spotless, perfect lamb was another condition of the Law (Exodus 12:46; Numbers 9:12) that Christ's bones would be protected was also prophecy (Psalm 34:20). I feel that this proves that His death did not really abolish the Law or the Prophets. What I believe Christ did was took the punishment that came from not following the law and He nailed that to the cross. We also look ahead toward Rosh Hashana, or Judgment Day... which is a future feast with all of its laws and requirements.

In summary, though this may sound silly... when the hearts of God's believers were still stone, He wrote the laws on stone... but then He gave us His own love and wrote those same laws on our hearts (2 Cor 3:3).


Pope Benedict wrote (I think in "The God of Jesus Christ") that we were never meant to abandon the command to keep the Sabbath (cf. Ex 31:16), but we can now do it properly because we have Jesus Christ, "the Lord of the Sabbath" (Luke 6:5) who says, "come to me.. and I shall give you rest" (Matthew 11:28). Unfortunately Jews will never experience true rest because it can only be found in Jesus... their Sabbath's have never been completely fulfilled.

---
I asked The Lord how much He loved me

He stretched out His arms and said, "this much"

Then He died for me

 


Complete thread:

                                                                              
                                                      
for Christians & Messianic Jews | Admin contact                   
14041 Postings in 4305 Threads, 163 registered users
[ Home ] [ Rules ] [ Gospel ] [ World News ] [ Israel News ] [ Online Bible ] [ Gays ] [ Abortion ] [ Masons ]

[ Jesus ][ Islam ][ Miracles ][ Near Death ][ Creationism ][ Bible Codes ] New Age ][ Israel ]

 [
Christian Music ] [ Israel Video News ] [ [ Funny clips ] [ Games ]
 

other interesting sites:

(Apocalypse Board) (Answers in Genesis) (Spirit Daily) (Mallett Blog) (Parable of Lazarus) (23 min video in Hell) (Amil Imani) (1 hr Video on Hell) (Israel Travel Guide)  (TraditionalValues.org) (FakeMessiah.com) (Israelitybites) [Jesus paid for our debt] [26 End times signs]
 

Above hits since 19 April 2011
(red dots show where visitors are from)