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Works vs Faith (general)

posted by fezik82(R), Ohio, 10.14.2014

Now that I feel that I understand you a bit better, I am wondering if there really is any difference in our views? I guess it took us awhile to see each other's understanding! I like that you finally chose to use the word "works" ;), I was honestly starting to question your sincerity b/c I felt that you were purposely overlooking our participation in our actions. I can agree that faith alone is a biblical concept... if we have the biblical definition of true faith. The verse that you quoted earlier seems to demonstrate the difference between true faith and dead faith... faith is not true unless it produces fruit, or "works". There are a number of verses showing the apostles trying to steer the Jews away from works of the law, such as circumcision, and those verses are often used against Catholics as though all "works" are works of the law... but that is removing all of the context. There are many passages that show us what true faith is. Denying that the actions that true faith compels us to do can be called "works" is contrary to biblical teaching and I feel that a number of people justify denying the Bible only to contradict Catholicism. But you are acknowledging works and I didn't get that from you before. The verses that I'm going to hook onto here *begin* to show me the true definition of God's version of "faith":


James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.


James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?


James 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?


James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


1 Thess 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;


Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations

So my understanding is that *if you are accepting that faith without deeds isn't faith at all*, then we are saved by faith. But since faith is ineffectual without works, then when Paul said, "by grace we are saved through faith", he is acknowledging that true faith (aka "works") is our route to salvation... not that sacrifice hasn't been made, but that we have a decision of whether we choose to accept it by allowing God given faith to enable us to do good works. That is my understanding of the doctrine of 'salvation by works'. We say yes to God and allow Him to act through us... so it "is not of ourselves, that no one can boast", yet still not to the exclusion of "works".

---
I asked The Lord how much He loved me

He stretched out His arms and said, "this much"

Then He died for me

 


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