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Heretic

08.02.2007
 

what is the third "measure of meal"? (bibles-scripture)

Matthew 13:33 reads, "Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened."

Luke 13:21 reads, "It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened."

So it's for sure that there are "three measures of meal". Given that the Old Testament is one measure of meal, and given that the New Testament is another measure of meal, then what is the third measure of meal?

bibleprobe(R)

Homepage

Mass.,
08.02.2007

@ Heretic

Our Lord in the Bread of Life Discourse

The "Third measure of meal" is this. God gave Himself so that those who trust in Him and believe in Him will have everlasting Life. It is the central part and fulfillment of all His Word given to us so far. It cannot be enhanced or taken away from. It is perfect. And it is finished.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

Please recall the beautiful words of our Lord and Savior in the "Bread of Life Discourse", found in the Gospel of St. John.

John 6:30 begins a colloquy that took place in the synagogue at Capernaum. The Jews asked Jesus what sign he could perform so that they might believe in him. As a challenge, they noted that "our ancestors ate manna in the desert." Could Jesus top that? He told them the real bread from heaven comes from the Father. "Give us this bread always," they said. Jesus replied, "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger, and whoever believes in me will never thirst." At this point the Jews mistakenly understood him to be speaking metaphorically.

Again and Again

"I myself am the living bread come down from heaven. If anyone eats this bread he shall live forever; the bread I will give is my flesh, for the life of the world. Let me solemnly assure you, if you do not eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His blood, you have no life in you. He who feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has life eternal, and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is real food, and my blood real drink. The man who feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. Just as the Father who has life sent me and I have life because of the Father, so the man who feed on me will have life because of me" (John 6:51, 53-57)

None of this language (hard saying) is symbolic! Jesus meant what He said.

Moreover, even when there is grumbling and objections, and even after some disciples abandon our Lord because of this teaching, Jesus nowhere says, "Oh, please stop buddies. Don't leave me. I meant this symbolically."

Our Lord stood by His teaching. Most importantly--He repeated this "hard teaching" twice.

I was a "bad teacher". I was once an instructor for a Naval Intelligence course in ocean surveillance, in Norfolk, Virginia. Sometimes I would literally "stomp the floor" with my foot while instructing something that was to appear on a very, very hard exam which was to follow the course. Hoping this point would sink in --and that the students would zoom in on this --BECAUSE they would see it again later. I wanted them to pass their end of course exam.

This is what Jesus did by repeating this. He basically is saying; "don't miss this --it literally is something you MUST get"...

In short you better at least once solemnly receive the Body & Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ (Communion) at least once in your life --in A Christian setting... To receive Holy Communion unworthily is a serious abuse of the sacred body and blood of the Lord, and therefore a sacrilege.

"The nearer to Jesus, the nearer to the perfect calm of heaven; and the further from Jesus, the nearer to that troubled sea which tosses with the continual unrest of the wicked. There is no peace to the man or woman who doth not dwell constantly under the shadow of the cross; for Jesus is our peace, and if he be absent, our peace is absent too."

Paul and Jesus both told us that the bread and wine really become the actual body and blood of Jesus, by the miracle of God's grace. See: 1 Corinthians 11:27-29.

Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

IMPORTANT: Don't ever take the receiving of Holy Communion lightly. Make a serious and heartfelt confession of all your sins to the Lord before ever receiving His blessed body and blood.

Those who preach the false Sabbatarianism (Saturday worship) theology don't want to hear this. But, tradition and History tell us that early Christians met in homes, usually on a Sunday and celebrated the Body and Blood of Christ with bread and wine. Also to the disdain of these modern day "jailers" who want to return Christians to the chains of the Old Testament Laws which were meant for and given only to the Jews:

Let us look then at the record. In Chapter 20:7 of Acts, it is said that at Paul's return to Troas, "Upon the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul discoursed with them. - . " This states clearly that the purpose of their gathering together was "to break bread", or observe the Lord's Supper. It is also clear that this was on the first day of the week, which had become the regular time for the meeting of Christians, and which John, in Chapter 1, verse 10 of Revelations, calls "the Lord's Day".

That the early church under the direct guidance of the inspired apostles observed the Lord's Supper on the first day of every week is the testimony of all biblical scholars and church historians of every denomination. Mosheim, in his celebrated Ecclesiastical History, volume 1,

Pages 46 and 85 says: "The first of all the Christian churches founded by the apostles was that at Jerusalem; and after the form and model of this all the others of that age were constituted. That church, however, was governed immediately by the apostles, to whom the presbyters (or elders) and the deacons, or overseers of the poor, were subject. Though the people had not withdrawn themselves from the Jewish worship, yet they held their separate meetings, in which they were instructed by the apostles and presbyters (or elders), offered up their united prayers, celebrated the sacred supper, the memorial of Jesus Christ, and the salvation he procured . . . . The Christians of this century assembled for the worship of God and for their advancement in piety on the first day of the week, the day on which Christ reassumed life; for that this day was set apart for religious worship by the apostles themselves, and that after the example of the Church at Jerusalem, it was generally observed we have unexceptional testimony."

For the first three centuries, then, the church observed the Lord's Supper each first day of the week. Testimony to this fact comes from Justin Martyr, one of the earliest church fathers. To those who were sick and unable to attend the assembly, the communion was carried to their homes. It was not till the fourth century that the church became careless and began to lose her first love.

One must also need to follow the Lord's directive that you must be baptised by Water...

Read more about Baptism here: http://bibleprobe.com/baptism.htm

Learn about Infant Baptism here: http://www.issuesetc.org/resource/journals/kastens.htm

Highland(R)

08.03.2007

@ bibleprobe

Our Lord in the Bread of Life Discourse

Sorry, but this statement is incorrect...

Paul and Jesus both told us that the bread and wine really become the
actual body and blood of Jesus, by the miracle of God's grace.

Fact:

The bread is life, (the life of Christ) "literally" infused into the heart of the believer. It has NOTHING to do with Jesus' body, but his BEING! It IS symbolic. I can assure you as the convict hung next to Christ he was not eating or drinking anything (but God's WORD) that "today you will be with me in paradise". Why? Because he we INFUSED with the Bread of life and the blood of Christ (((( by his faith in the man who hung next to him)))).

No chalace filled with wine, no bread touched his lips, no literal body was eaten, nor blood drank, ONLY the faith in the man next to him, a man who actaully was GOD!

bibleprobe(R)

Homepage

Mass.,
08.03.2007

@ Highland

Highland - Jesus has given Himself to us in the Eucharist!

Highland:

You can go on 'rebelling' against the STATED wishes of the Lord if you like. Me, I just turn my back to this "Jesus really didn't mean what He said nonsense." If you go on teaching against His wishes--I pray the Lord has pity on you for derailing young Christian souls.

[image]

There is nothing symbolic about it. Jesus was adamant and He even repeated it twice. Even after his Apostles "grumbled" over this hard saying (must eat His body & drink His blood)--He stuck to it. The first Eucharist which took place at the Last Supper established the New Covenant. "Do this in remembrance of me" was the stated wish of our Lord. There is nothing symbolic to it. In carrying out Christ's commandment, being fully conscious of the great significance of the Eucharist, the Apostles performed that Mystery. It was the gift of the Eucharist that united and equalized ALL the early Christians -- be they lords, slaves, rich or poor, man or female, or child.

The word 'Eucharist' means to give thanks. It was Jesus Himself who designed and deliberately instituted this sacred rite (mystical partaking of His Body & Blood really) that was to be practiced by the Christian community "till He comes again."

The Good thief is a good example of being saved based on ones Faith in Jesus and a good example of our sweet Lord's unfathomable good graces. It is also an example of the Lord's absolute authority --just as is the fact that the Lord forgave sins in His own name. This has absolutely nothing to do with Christ's desire that Christians celebrate Him via the bread and wine communion "of saints".

Paul and Jesus both told us that the bread and wine really become the actual body and blood of Jesus, by the miracle of God's grace. ALL the early church fathers--some who walked and talked and listened to the Apostles preach also told us that the Eucharist is really the Body of Christ in a mystical way. It's a Gift of God.

In 1 Corinthians 10:21 St. Paul contrasts the "table of the Lord" (trapeza Kyriou) on which the Eucharist is offered, with the "table of devils", or pagan altars.

"Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils."

The Early Christians actually took the Real Presence for granted. It doesn't even seem as if there was much debate. You will not find anyone who denied the Real Presence of Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament before the year 500 A.D. Read some of these: here

None of this language (hard saying) is symbolic! Jesus meant what He said. Just as He meant it when He said we must be baptised.

The Apostle Paul in explaining this, speaks directly and also NOT symbolically also!

Paul was warning us that if we eat the Lord's Body and drink the Lord's blood unworthy; "For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep." There is nothing metaphoric or symbolic about Paul's statement here either. It's a warning as clear as can be.

1 Corinthians 11:27-29.
Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Below from "The Martyrs Cup" at Touchstone Magazine:

In the first generation of Christians it was easy to spot a Christian. There were several unmistakable signs. St. Luke tells us that the first Christians, one and all, devoted themselves to the teaching of the apostles and to the communion ( koinonia), to the breaking of the bread and to the prayers (Acts 2:42). One phrase especiallythe breaking of the breadrecurs in many of the scraps we have from those first centuries, and it always refers to the Eucharistic Liturgy, the Lords Supper.

Our first Christian ancestors devoted themselves to the Eucharist, and that is perhaps the most important way they showed themselves to be Christians. No Christian practice is so well attested from those early years. No doctrine is so systematically worked out as the doctrine of the Eucharist.

It was when they gathered for the Eucharist that all thistheir common life, their charity, their fidelity to the teaching of the apostleshappened most clearly, directly, intensely. They experienced fellowship with each other and together heard the apostles teaching, and they broke the bread in the accustomed way, as they said the customary prayers.

So it was in the newborn Church. The Church took its identity from its unity in belief and charity, which was sustained by the Eucharist.

Well, what has Jesus done in the Eucharist? He has given himself to us, and he has held nothing back. He gives us his body, blood, soul, and divinity. He gives himself to us as food. And that is love: the total gift of self. That is the very love the martyrs wanted to emulate. Jesus had given himself entirely for them. They wanted to give themselves entirely for himeverything they had, holding nothing back. If Jesus would become bread for them, they would allow the lions to make them finest wheat for Jesus. The Eucharist helps you get as close as possible to Jesus:

"Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you" John 14:27
"The nearer to Jesus, the nearer to the perfect calm of heaven; and the further from Jesus, the nearer to that troubled sea which tosses with the continual unrest of the wicked. There is no peace to the man or woman who doth not dwell constantly under the shadow of the cross; for Jesus is our peace, and if he be absent, our peace is absent too."


HOW 2nd-3rd GENERATION CHRISTIANS VIEWED THE EUCHARIST:

Justin Martyr was born at Flavia Neapolis (near today's Nablus, Israel) in about A.D. 100. He converted to Christianity about A.D. 130. Justin taught and defended the Christian religion in Asia Minor and at Rome, where he suffered martyrdom about the year 165.

JUSTIN MARTYR TELLS US ABOUT THE EUCHARIST IN HIS 1st APOLOGETIC WRITING:
THE EUCHARIST After baptism and the offering of prayer, the bread and wine mixed with water are brought to the president. He again offers prayers and thanksgivings, and the deacons give to those present bread, and wine mixed with water, and to those who are absent they carry away a portion (I. Apol., c. 65). But the bread and wine are not received as common bread and common drink, but as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and by which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh (I. Apol., C. 66).

THE HOLY EARLY CHRISTIAN MARTYRS LONGED TO TAKE COMMUNION (The Body & Blood of Christ):

So convinced was the early Christian community of the essential value of Holy Communion for their life and faith that the records are filled with its practice in Christian martyrdom.

At one time in early church history the Christians were forced with the decision to say either, "I confess," or else to apostatize (abandon their religious faith). For the Christian "Confessors" who awaited execution in the imperial prisons, the Church Fathers took it for granted that Holy Communion must be smuggled in and practiced insofar as possible. Christian bishop Cyprian (of Carthage) arranged such a service for the elder Lucian. As Lucian was lying with his legs wrenched wide apart in the stocks of the prison at Antioch, he celebrated Holy Communion for the last time as best he could. He celebrated the Body & Blood of Jesus Christ with his condemned companions lying equally helpless in the dark around him. This was during the Sixth Persecution, Under Maximus - around 235 A.D. During this persecution, by the Roman Emperor Maximinus, numberless Christians were slain without trial, and buried indiscriminately in heaps, sometimes fifty or sixty being cast into a pit together, without the least decency.

[image]
artist depiction
Early Church martyrs Perpetua and Felicitas (Felicity)

Perpetua was beheaded after being mauled by wild beasts while defending her belief in Christ.

Read the real prison diary of an extraordinary young woman martyred in Carthage (North Africa)

On the evening of March 6, A.D. 203, at a prison in Carthage, the martyrs of the next day, Perpetua and Felicitas, and their companions, were given a free meal by the authorities. This meal they converted as far as possible into an Agape [love-feast]. Holy Communion was the first consideration of the Christian and the Church in times of persecution and imprisonment. To the early Christians, Holy Communion was more precious than their lives. Holy Communion was their ultimate concern because their hope of eternal life was in remembrance of Him who loved them and gave Himself for them . . . .

Dionysius, bishop of Alexandria, wrote:

"At first they drove us out, and alone we kept our festival [Communion] at that time also, persecuted and put to death by all; and every single spot where we were afflicted became to us a place of assembly for the feast [Communion] - field, desert, ship, inn, prison; but the brightest of all festivals was kept by the perfect martyrs, when they feasted in heaven."

Just to read these accounts makes one ashamed of our apathy toward the passion of Christ in the celebration of Holy Communion. The Christian who is indifferent to the practice of Holy Communion in complacent twentieth-first century churchism has no place beside the first-century Christians. Just perhaps these 'rebels' against Christ's stated wishes have no place in the Church, nor in the Kingdom of God either! Worse are those who teach against the Holy Eucharist, something first century Christians would think of as blasphemy.

Read more about this extraordinary true story of courage & faith here

Collateral sources on the importance of the Eucharist and against your type of heretical teaching:

Ignatius of Antioch (also known as Theophorus) (was the third Bishop or Patriarch of Antioch and probably a student of Apostle John.
Ignatius was Bishop of Antioch after Saint Peter and Evodius, who died around AD 68. Eusebius (Historia Ecclesiastica, II.iii.22) records that Ignatius succeeded Evodius. Making his apostolic succession even more immediate, Theodoret (Dial. Immutab., I, iv, 33a) reported that Peter himself appointed Ignatius to the see of Antioch. Early in the second century (perhaps around 107 Ad, during the reign of the Emperor Trajan), Ignatius was arrested by the Imperial authorities, condemned to death, and transported to Rome to die in the arena. By thus dealing with a leader, the rulers hoped to terrify the rank and file. Instead, Ignatius took the opportunity to encourage them, speaking to groups of Christians at every town along the way.

When the prison escort reached the west coast of Asia Minor, it halted before taking ship, and delegations from several Asian churches were able to visit Ignatius, to speak with him at length, to assist him with items for his journey, and to bid him an affectionate farewell and commend him to the grace of God. In response he wrote seven letters that have been preserved: five to congregations that had greeted him, en masse or by delegates (Ephesians, Magnesians, Trallians, Philadelphians, and Smyrnaeans), one to the congregation that would greet him at his destination (Romans), and one to Polycarp, Bishop of Smyrna and disciple of the Apostle John.

Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrnaeans, Chapter 6, 110 A.D.:
Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God ... They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes.

Justin Martyr, Apology, I.66-67, 2nd century:
Communion in the Body and Blood of Christ

It is allowed to no one else to participate in that food which we call Eucharist except the one who believes that the things taught by us are true, who has been cleansed in the washing unto rebirth and the forgiveness of sins and who is living according to the way Christ handed on to us. For we do not take these things as ordinary bread or ordinary drink. Just as our Savior Jesus Christ was made flesh by the word of God and took on flesh and blood for our salvation, so also were we taught that the food, for which thanksgiving has been made through the word of prayer instituted by him, and from which our blood and flesh are nourished after the change, is the flesh of that Jesus who was made flesh. Indeed, the Apostles, in the records left by them which are called gospels, handed on that it was commanded to them in this manner: Jesus, having taken bread and given thanks said, ``Do this in memory of me, this is my body.'' Likewise, having taken the cup and given thanks, he said, ``This is my blood'', and he gave it to them alone.

Irenaeus of Lyons, Against Heresies, [5,2,2] 180 A.D.:
If the body be not saved, then in fact, neither did the Lord redeem us with His Blood; and neither is the cup of the Eucharist the partaking of His Blood nor is the Bread which we break the partaking of His Body . . . He has declared the cup, a part of creation, to be His own Blood, from which He causes our blood to flow; and the bread, a part of creation, He has established as His own Body, from which He gives increase to our bodies.

Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 180 A.D., 4,17,5:
Again, giving counsel to His disciples to offer to God the first-fruits from among His creatures, not as if He needed them, but so that they themselves might be neither unfruitful nor ungrateful, He took from among creation that which is bread, and gave thanks, saying, ``This is My Body.'' The cup likewise, which is from among the creation to which we belong, He confessed to be His Blood.

He taught the the new sacrifice of the New Covenant, of which Malachi, one of the twelve prophets, had signified beforehand: ```You do not do my will,' says the Lord Almighty, `and I will not accept a sacrifice at your hands. For from the rising of the sun to its setting My name is glorified among the gentiles, and in every place incense is offer to My name, and a pure sacrifice; for great is My name among the gentiles,' says the Lord Almighty.'' (Mal 1:11). By these words He makes it plain that the former people will cease to make offerings to God; but that in every place sacrifice will be offered to Him, and indeed, a pure one; for His name is glorified among the gentiles.''

Tertullian's The Resurrection of the Dead [8,2] A.D. 208-212:
The flesh, then, is washed, so that the soul may be made clean. The flesh is anointed, so that the soul may be dedicated to holiness. The flesh is signed, so that the soul too may be fortified. The flesh is shaded with the imposition of hands, so that the soul too may be illuminated by the Spirit. The flesh feeds on the Body and Blood of Christ, so that the soul too may fatten on God. They cannot, then, be separated in their reward, when they are united in their works.

Tertullian [ca. 200/206 AD] in his treaties on Prayer [6,2], quotes John 6 in connection with a spiritual understanding of the Lord's prayer "give us this day our daily bread." In a spiritual sense Christ is our daily Bread, presumably because of the practice of the daily reception of the Eucharist.

Later in that same treatise [19,1] he writes;

Likewise, regard to days of fast, many do not think they should be present at the sacrificial prayers, because their fast would be broken if they were to receive the Body of the Lord. Does the Eucharist, then, obviate a work devoted to God, or does it bind it more to god? Will not your fast be more solemn if, in addition, you have stood at God's altar? The body of the Lord having been received and reserved, each point is secured: both the participation in the sacrifice and the discharge of duty.

The Didache or "The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles" is a manuscript which was used by 2nd century bishops and priests for the instruction of catechumens. Many early Christian writers have referenced it making this document relatively easy to date.

"Let no one eat and drink of your Eucharist but those baptized in the name of the Lord; to this, too the saying of the Lord is applicable: 'Do not give to dogs what is sacred'".

That the early church under the direct guidance of the inspired apostles observed the Lord's Supper on the first day of every week is the testimony of all biblical scholars and church historians of every denomination. Mosheim, in his celebrated Ecclesiastical History, volume 1,

Pages 46 and 85 says: "The first of all the Christian churches founded by the apostles was that at Jerusalem; and after the form and model of this all the others of that age were constituted. That church, however, was governed immediately by the apostles, to whom the presbyters (or elders) and the deacons, or overseers of the poor, were subject. Though the people had not withdrawn themselves from the Jewish worship, yet they held their separate meetings, in which they were instructed by the apostles and presbyters (or elders), offered up their united prayers, celebrated the sacred supper, the memorial of Jesus Christ, and the salvation he procured . . . . The Christians of this century assembled for the worship of God and for their advancement in piety on the first day of the week, the day on which Christ reassumed life; for that this day was set apart for religious worship by the apostles themselves, and that after the example of the Church at Jerusalem, it was generally observed we have unexceptional testimony."

For the first three centuries, then, the church observed the Lord's Supper each first day of the week. Testimony to this fact comes from Justin Martyr, one of the earliest church fathers. To those who were sick and unable to attend the assembly, the communion was carried to their homes. It was not till the fourth century that the church became careless and began to lose her first love.

John 6:53-57:
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

armygirl

08.04.2007
(edited by armygirl, 08.04.2007)

@ Highland

Our Lord is the Bread of Life

Some people like their bread plain (dry), others like it buttered (smooth), and still there are those who prefer to have a little jam (sugar coated). It may be a matter of taste, or just their (carnal) preference.

However, the bread of Life is Christ Jesus.

And, many are thirsty for the living water that proceeds out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

It is not Christ death that saves us; it is His life.

armygirl

bibleprobe(R)

Homepage

Mass.,
08.04.2007

@ armygirl

Our Lord is the Bread of Life

That reminds me of a real appearance of the radiant Lord to a Muslim theologian in Iran, not all that long ago...The Lord appeared before this old Iranian man and said; I am the Bread of Life....kneel before me....

A good man

My father was a tall, big boned man with gray hair. He was sweet and kind, yet a very serious man who seldom joked. When he did joke, they were funny and made everyone laugh. He took his responsibility of providing for the family seriously and his giving spirit prompted him to frequently bless us with extravagant gifts. Until I confessed Jesus as my Savior, it was my conviction that he was the most loving father that anyone could have.

A Fanatical Fundamentalist Muslim
Though he had a gentle demeanor, there is no escaping the fact that he was also a fanatical, fundamentalist Muslim. Islam was the priority of my fathers life. The most prominent piece of furniture in the living room of the palatial estate that he had built for our family was a small handcrafted table. It was the revered pedestal for his Koran. My mother never allowed anything else on that table. His Koran was cumbersome to hold, as it was heavy and had ornate artwork crafted into its covers. In addition to his mandatory Islamic prayers, he spent a minimum of two hours a day reading it. He kissed it on each occasion that he picked it up or returned it to its sacred place. Father frequently mentioned that no matter how many times one reads the Koran, there will still be things that mystify ones understanding. Yet, it was his conviction that it contained useful teachings that could be found each time he repeatedly read it. Everything he said and did had to be in accordance with the strictest interpretations of Islamic Law. His primary goal for himself and his family was that we be pleasing to Allah. We were important, but secondary in his considerations as he labored to achieve his goal.

Father was a uniquely industrious man. At the age of nine, he and a childhood friend vowed that one day they would go into business together. They became partners in a successful (TYPE BUSINESS/REMOVED) that employed more than a hundred people. He spoke and read Arabic with such fluency that he REMOVED. In keeping with his motto that hard work is a part of a Muslims life he also became a REMOVED. The trust and reliability that he had in his business partner freed him to give himself to his university work and his studies. His chief joy was teaching. He always said, Joy, sorrow, wife, children and all of life are to be treasured as long as they do not trespass Islam and adherence to the Sharia (the rules and laws of Islam).

The dark side
While I was yet a teenager I saw his customary kind demeanor transformed into that of a raving religious fanatic. It all began by my finding a copy of the Bible in Farsi while studying in the universitys library. When I innocently brought that volume into his house his dark side was exposed. With unbelievable fury he screamed that I was to never read such a terrible book. My covert disobedience led me to a supernatural revelation that Jesus is Lord. A series of events ensued that necessitated that my husband and I flee Iran. My father renounced me as his daughter and forbade anyone to utter my name in his presence ever again.
The phone call from Iran

Twenty years later my husband and I were living in USA CITY/REMOVED. One particular week we were fasting about the direction for our ministry and the telephone rang at 3:30 AM on a Saturday morning. He was already asleep and I quickly answered it assuming that it was likely one of the converts who had returned to Iran and was reporting in to us. They frequently call in the middle of the night. For some momentarily unexplained reason I was shaking as I reached for the phone. No voice came through so I hung up and returned for bed when no one answered my hello. The same thing happened a second time and I decided that I would not answer it if it rang again. It shortly sounded forth for the third time and I dutifully answered it. I heard the operator speaking in Farsi stating that it was a person-to-person call for me from Iran. I assured the operator that I was the person whom the call was for and she told the other party that I was on the line. The male voice that I heard explained the reason for my shaking. Even before I picked up the receiver, the Holy Spirit within me knew who it was. The rush that His presence was causing in my body facilitated my physiological response of shaking. It was my father.

Glorious shock and awe DAUGHTER'S NAME/REMOVED, my beloved daughter is that really you? I could not respond instantly due to the fact that I was choking with tears. It was the first time that I had heard his voice in over twenty years.

Holy ground encounter
Yes, my dearest daughter it is I, your father.

My dear DAUGHTER NAME, just listen carefully to what I want to tell you about what has happened to me in the last couple of days. Early Thursday morning I left IRANIAN CITY/REMOVED for our farm in REMOVED and arrived there around noon. Even though it is not Ramadan, I decided to spend the day fasting. SENTENCE/REMOVED. I was scheduled to return home later that evening. There were errands to run and I was tired and hungry when I got to the farm. I walked around a little and then decided to return home, only to find that I had accidentally locked the keys in the car. I did not welcome the prospects of walking all the way to town to fetch a locksmith. I opted to recite my salat before the cold darkness closed in and before attempting the journey. The waters of the well were cold as I splashed them over my face, arms, loins and feet in ablution before kneeling in prayer. I was famished with hunger and as I knelt I saw a package of warm, freshly baked bread lying in the grass. There was not a soul around for miles and I began to thank Allah for his provision. I put a piece to my mouth and heard a thunderous voice telling me to arise to my feet. I obeyed and as I arose a heavy rain began to fall over me. To my astonishment, the voice commanded me to look around. It was then that I noticed that it was only raining on me and nowhere else on the farm. The ground under my feet was soaked and everywhere else the ground was perfectly dry.

The voice came again, Do you know who I am? I am the Bread of Life. My response was, Allaho Akbar, God is Great. No, you are mistaken. I am not Allah. You dont know Me at all. Kneel before Me. When I knelt a radiant figure appeared in front of me. The light from it was so bright that I had to lift my hands to shield my eyes. You are to repent of your sins. I am the Bread of Life and today My blood washes your sins away. I fell face-forward into the wet ground and cried out the name of Jesus repeatedly. As I did so, something that felt like a heavenly electrical honey pulsated through my entire body. I screamed into the muddy ground; even though I am now an old man please accept me Jesus and I will serve you for the rest of my life. The voice became even louder and continued, You are to prepare a feast of salvation at your home for all to see.


[image]
Read this entire story in Mina Nevisa's book, Miracle of Miracles. See it here: http://bibleprobe.com/books.htm

NAPHTALI

08.08.2007

@ Heretic

what is the third "measure of meal"?

Greetings all;

The inaugural citation, when a word or term gets mentioned in scripture, should be distinguished and scrutinize as the first mention, its exegesis and hermeneutics set the stage for subsequent references.

The Catholic redactors of scripture get kudos here. The Catholic redactors employ an eclectic text, as opposed to the diplomatic Masoretic text (MT) of standard versions. In order to compose the Saint Joseph edition of The New American Bible. [Imprimatur: Most Rev. Daniel E. Pilarczyk; President, National Conference of Catholic Bishops September 10, 1991.]

The verse in discussion is: SJENAB Genesis 4:6 So the LORD said to Cain: Why are you so resentful and crestfallen? 7 If you do well, you can hold up your head; but if not, sin is a demon lurking at the door: his urge is toward you, yet you can be his master..

The KJV (with some Strongs concordance numbers) has: KJV Genesis 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin <02403> lieth <07257> (08802) at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule <04910> (08799) over him.

The MT term for sin here is: #2403 =
2403 ha'J'x; chatta'ah {khat-taw-aw'} or taJ'x; chatta'th {khat-tawth'}
Meaning: 1) sin, sinful 2) sin, sin offering 2a) sin 2b) condition of sin, guilt of sin 2c) punishment for sin 2d) sin-offering 2e) purification from sins of ceremonial uncleanness
Origin: from 02398; TWOT - 638e; n f
Usage: AV - sin 182, sin offering 116, punishment 3, purification for sin 2, purifying 1, sinful 1, sinner 1; 296

The eclectic Catholic text employs various sources for its rendition. These sources include: The Targumim, the Septuagint, different Hebrew text traditions other than the MT. The word Catholic scholars render demon, lurking at is an Akkadian loan word, robes which designates a crouching demon, but nonetheless an evil spirit. In fact the Catholic rendition should read: Genesis 4:6 So the LORD said to Cain: Why are you so exasperated and crestfallen? 7 If you do rightly, you can be exalted; but if not, sin is a demon prowling at your entrance: his passion is to enter inside of you, yet you can overcome him and be his master..

The Vulgate has: VUL Genesis 4:7 nonne si bene egeris recipies sin autem male statim in foribus peccatum aderit sed sub te erit appetitus eius et tu dominaberis illius

Another Hebrew word for sin, iniquity, unclean spirit, transgression, reproach, punishment is avon (Strongs concordance # 5771).

As in mathematics once the value for a parameter is determined, the value can be substituted into other parts of that equation system sans capsizing the equation system. For exemplification: is a set of simultaneous equations:
#1. X + Y - Z = 0,
#2. X Y + Z = -4
#3. X + Y + Z = 6
There are 3 independent equations, 3 unknowns (X, Y, & Z), then a numerical value and be obtained for each unknown. Through algebraic massage, it is determined that X = 2, Y = 3, and Z = 5.

Now take some classic verses containing the word sin and make the substitution for demon, the results can be suite startling.

JPS Genesis 19:15 And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying: 'Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters that are here; lest thou be swept away with the DEMONS [iniquity] of the city.'

JPS Leviticus 18:25 And the land was defiled, therefore I did permit the DEMONS [iniquity] thereof upon it, and the land vomited out her inhabitants.

NKJ Numbers 32:23 "But if you do not do so, then take note, you have sinned against the LORD; and be sure your DEMON (sin) will find you out.

There are numerous passages that can be applied. But what has all this to do with communion. Sadly, much, if perhaps most of, Protestantdom does not perceive the body and blood in communion services. It is too bad because the Greek text and the Aramaic Peshitta make it abundantly clear that that is exactly what Paul meant:
KJV 1 Corinthians 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it <2076> (5748) not <3780> the communion <2842> of the blood [<129>, Greek: (h)aima, meaning literally, blood: Aramaic: domah, literally meaning blood] of Christ <5547>? The bread <740> which <3739> we break <2806> (5719), is it <2076> (5748) not <3780> the communion <2842> of the body [<4983>, Greek: soma, literally meaning body; Aramaic: nidah, literally meaning body] of Christ <5547>? The believers who see the elements of communion as the transubstantiated body and blood of Christ are correct; these people, are in effect, arguing for the real presence of Christ. This is in opposition to those who see communion as symbolic; in essence they are arguing for the real absence of Christ in the communion event.

The Catholics make one error though. The transubstantiated flesh is NOT of the glorified body, but of His pre-glorified body before He put on incorruptibility. This has to be in order for communion to work.

Catholic priests may not fully realize that taking communion in a pious manner is a dramatic form of exorcism. Here is the proof. As shown above, sin is a demon, which is inside of a believer. Going to confession, just as the work of John the Baptist, that of an adumbrate, a precursor for Christ, was that of a confessor-Baptist. John set up the environment for Christs miraculous deeds.

Christ bore (Greek aorist tense showing something that is continually happening -and still does bear) and bears our sins in His flesh:

NKJ 1 Peter 2:24 who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness -- by whose stripes you were healed. In order to bear our sins that flesh MUST BE the pre-glorified, it CANNOT be INCORRUPTIBLE flesh, as when the pietistic believer his internal demons enter the flesh of Christ and are subsequently eliminated.

This is why the Catholics who piously receive communion on a daily basis seem to be so much more emotionally and physically better off that their Protestant counterparts. Protestants, in general, can recite more of scripture to a greater extent, but do so in a life of more suffering than their Catholic brethren.

Thats the way it works, as Mr. Ripley would say: believe it or not [Surely some will quickly post something to the effect and I dont believe it. That is too bad because if one believes that gravity is no longer in effect, that does not alter the fact that gravity is still in operation. One may believe fire does not burn, then will turn around and cook a meal. One belief does not automatically rearrange the cosmos to fit that belief.]


Yva-reh-cha-cha Ah-doe-nigh vyeesh-mreh-cha, Ya-air Ah-doe-nigh, pa-navh ay-leh-cha vee-choo-neh-ka, Yee-sa Ah-doe-nigh pa-nahv al-leh-cha ve-ya-sem lcha Shalom. (Numbers 6:24-26). The Lord bless you and keep you, The Lord make His face shine upon you and be gracious unto you, The Lord lift up His countenance upon you and give you peace.

NAPHTALI

Heretic

11.17.2007

@ bibleprobe

Our Lord is the Bread of Life

The messages in this thread show that truth is mixed with error in the minds of those who have posted replies. Given that this is the case, how can this be accounted for? Or, what is the cause of this situation? To begin an explanation, please consider that God truly said, "Love your neighbor as yourself." Given that God is not a hypocrite, He does what He commands us to do. He therefore loves His neighbor as He loves Himself. One of the ways in which He has loved Himself is that He preserved His words in books. It therefore logically follows that one of the ways in which He loved His neighbors was to preserve the words of His neighbors in those very same books. This is shown to have been the case by the testimony which reads, "And he said, Whereunto shall the kingdom of God liken? Is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened." But this portion is largely ignored by Christians who claim that God was a hypocrite, that God did not preserve the words of His neighbors in the same books in which He preserved His own words. They claim that God is a hypocrite by saying that the books of the Bible contain only the words of God. Believing that the books of the Bible contain only the words of God, they put the entire Bible into their minds and thereby have truth mixed with error in their minds. This mixing of error and truth in their minds is the reason that the other posts in this thread contain truth mixed with error.

mrperkins(R)

08.30.2010

@ Heretic

what is the third "measure of meal"?

Your observation is interesting to me,
You noted that the Old Testament is the first measure, the New Testament is the second and you want to know what the third could be. I believe the third measure could be other scripture. There is a book called, The Book of Mormon. It is a part of the LDS church, of which I am a member. The is another witness of Jesus Christ. I invite you to look into it at http://scriptures.lds.org/
Another thing I'll mention is that there are other references in the Bible to other books, some referenced directly, but not found in the Bible, and some prophesied to come by God at a later date. One example is the two "sticks" mention in Ezek. 37: 16-17, 19-20. These sticks are written on. It is inferred that by stick they authors of the scriptures likely meant scroll, upon which they might write. From this passage the Bible is symbolized by the stick of Juda, written, by the tribe of Juda. The stick of Ephraim is a symbol for the Book of Mormon. Its authors were decendents of Ephraim.
Pretty neat huh!
Michael

                                                                              
                                                      
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