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bibleprobe(R)

Homepage

Mass.,
10.22.2006
 

Is Baptism Necessary? What about Infant Baptism? (baptism)

Is Baptism Necessary?

Yes! Because Jesus said it is...

John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

In Mark 16:16 Jesus says, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter said; "every one of you"! That means infants too!


What about Infant Baptism?

If you love your child, you will Baptize your child now, as an infant!

If you belong to a denomination who falsely teaches that a child should only be baptized after they have reached an age of reasoning, you are not following the Apostolic tradition, and you are actually being cruel to your child, should anything happen to them before they are baptized. What I am saying here is that the apostles sprinkled or poured water over everyone, including infants. That is an apostolic tradition.

Mothers, baptize your babies now before it is too late. They can always decide themselves to do a 2nd baptism when they reach their age of reasoning. You can baptize your child yourself, together with another Christian witness. Do it solemnly, while sprinkling or pouring water over your baby, and saying; "I baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy spirit". If you prefer, you can dunk an older child. Then serve cake and ice cream if you like. Because this is a joyful event.

From the beginning of New Testament Christianity at the Feast of Pentecost (Acts 2: 38-39) to our time, unbroken and uninterrupted; the church has baptized babies. Entire households (Jewish, proselytes and Gentiles) were baptized by Christs original 12 Apostles (I Corinthians 1: 16; Acts 11: 14, 16: 15, 33, 18: 8) and that practice has continued with each generation.

Augustine (354 - 430 AD), writing about this time in De Genesi Ad Literam, X: 39, declares, "The custom of our mother church in baptizing infants must not be . . . accounted needless, nor believed to be other than a tradition of the apostles."

Read this excellent article by Lutheran Pastor Dennis Kastens on "infant baptism" all the way back to the Apostles: here

bibleprobe(R)

Homepage

Mass.,
10.22.2006

@ bibleprobe

The Anabaptist story

Is anyone else aware of the Anabaptist story, from the early 1500's? I have told Tarek about Muhammad's desire to see his victims tortured. What many do not know is that our good Christian brethren, the Anabaptists were tortured on their way to their executions. And, in the Middle Ages (better called the Dark Ages), the victims of the Inquisition were also tortured. In this country, the Amish are descendents of the Anabaptist movement.

As we know, Jesus would not have ever approved of this! Whereas, apparently Islam and their Allah does. The ghastly Muslim stonings of women that continue today, testify to this.

The Anabaptist movement began around Zurich Switzerland and spread to Austria and to central and southern Germany. Their main "crime" seems to be that they challenged the two main established churches at the time with their radical or anti-establishment beliefs. These were both the Reformed Protestant Churches and the Roman Catholic Church. There were tens of thousands of Anabaptists. Most were hunted down and rooted out by by church and local government officials.

What irked the church and local officials in the Dark Ages was that the Anabaptists spread about the teaching that Infant Baptism was not scriptural, and that it was unacceptable to be Baptized before the age of reasoning, and after one was saved by the Holy Spirit. In short, they pushed the re-baptizing of adults who had previously been baptized as infants. Some Anabaptists also point to the 1st century example of the Apostle Paul in Acts chapter 19. Montanus, the Montanists, and Tertullian (2nd and 3rd centuries) denied infant baptism, practiced believer's baptism, and rebaptized those baptized by heretics. The Donatists (4th century) re-baptized those who had been baptized by bishops who were traditors, or who were from churches stained by fellowship with traditors. Anabaptists (rebaptizers) were made criminals under the code of Justinian (A.D. 529).

Anyways, in many historical accounts, after being tried, and while being led to a lake to be executed by drowning --the sentence often read that the cart carrying them was to stop on the way, and the prisoners were to have skin torn from their bodies 5 times or so.

This is torture. As was burning at the stake. What do you think Jesus would think about this? How do you suppose Jesus will treat all those who took part in these tortures without asking for His forgiveness?

As to Baptism. Jesus says we must be Baptized by both water and the Holy Spirit. The Church has held since its beginning that it is better to do it while one is an infant. There is nothing precluding a second Baptism. But personally, I think the first Baptism is important in case something happens to the child. Nevertheless, Jesus said UNLESS you are baptized by water and spirit you will never....

CODE OF JUSTINIAN REGARDING RE-BAPTIZING FOLLOWS:

TITLE VI. To AVOID THE REPETITION OF BAPTISM.

1. The Emperors Valentinian, Valens, and Gratian to Florian, Lieutenant of Asia.

We think that a bishop who, by unlawful usurpation, has repeated the sacred rite of baptism, is unworthy of the priesthood; for We condemn the error of those who, trampling under foot the precepts of the Apostles, do not purify those who have obtained the sacraments of the Christian denomination by a second baptism, but defile and pollute them under the pretext of cleansing them.

Given at Constantinople, on the sixteenth of the Kalends of November, during the Consulate of Gratian, Consul for the fourth time, and Merobaudus, 377.

2. The Emperors Honorius and Theodosius to Anthemius, Pr�torian Prefect.

Where anyone belonging to the ministry of the Catholic sect, is convicted of having baptized the same person twice, he shall, along with him who induced him to commit the offence (provided he is of such an age as to be responsible), be condemned to death.

Given on the twelfth of the Kalends of April, during the Consulate of Lucius, 413.

3. The Emperors Theodosius and Valentinian to Florentius, Pr�torian Prefect.

Permission should not be given to apostates to baptize, for the second time, freeborn persons or their own slaves who have been initiated into the mysteries of the orthodox faith, or to prohibit those whom they have purchased, or have control of in any way, but who have not yet embraced their own superstition, from accepting the doctrines of the Catholic Church.

Anyone who does this, or any freeborn person who permits it to be done to himself, or does not give information of it after it has been done, shall be sentenced to exile, and to pay a fine of ten pounds of gold, and shall be denied the right of either making a will or a donation.

We decree that all these rules shall be observed, so that no judge shall be permitted to punish a crime, when brought to his attention, with a smaller penalty than that prescribed by law, or not to punish it at all, unless he himself desires to undergo the same penalty from which, by his dissimulation, he has released others.

Given at Constantinople, on the third of the Kalends of June, during the Consulship of Felix and Taurus, 428.

Read this excellent article by Lutheran Pastor Dennis Kastens on "infant baptism" all the way back to the Apostles: here

yochanan

E-mail

10.24.2006

@ bibleprobe

The Anabaptist story

Is anyone else aware of the Anabaptist story, from the early 1500's? I have
told Tarek about Muhammad's desire to see his victims tortured. What many
do not know is that our good Christian brethren, the Anabaptists were
tortured on their way to their executions. And, in the Middle Ages (better
called the Dark Ages), the victims of the Inquisition were also tortured.
In this country, the Amish are descendents of the Anabaptist movement.

Pauline Christians ( evangelicals and other protestants) tend to focus on certain interpretations of Paul (in some ways twisting what Paul said). Anabaptists focus on the teachings of what Yeshua said, and FOLLOWING him disciple) and study the word of G-d from this perspective (types and shadows).

Most evangelicals are more Calvinistic (from English Baptists)and believe salvation to be by faith alone. This is a faulty view to Anabaptists, because they view saved as THE WAY, or a way of life in the evil age they live in. They are not part of this age, or Kingdom, they are part of another age or Kingdom (the age to come).

There are other views which Anabaptists held which are differing from the CHURCH (some were non-trinitarians as an example).

In Yeshua

Liz(R)

10.24.2006

@ bibleprobe

Water Baptism, Cornelius, Acts 10:, the Holy Spirt

Water Baptism, Cornelius, Acts 10:, the Holy Spirt

Water Baptism, Cornelius, Acts 10:, Baptism of the Holy Spirt or Holy Ghost? Which? Peter explains the baptism of Cornelius using the same terms as in Acts 2:38. However, casual students influenced more by Zwingli than Peter demand that: (a) The Spirit fell on Cornelius and his band before they were baptized; b. This is evidence that they were saved; c. Therefore, they were saved before baptism, making it not essential to salvation.

Are you sure that you want to trust the PURIFICATION which applied both to Cornelius and PIGS for your salvation? Do you want to TRUMP the very direct command of Jesus? Cornelius did not trust any "embracing" of the Spirit he wanted to know what GOD IN CHRIST had commanded PETER to do. The Cornelius example is NOT AN EXCEPTION and we know that in the words of Cornelius. Of Peter,

And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, Acts 10:10

And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: Acts 10:11

Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. Acts 10:12

And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. Acts 10:13

But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. Acts 10:14

Koinos or "shared by the common" people and therefore defined: not PURIFIED.

UNCLEAN is:

Akathartos (g169) ak-ath'-ar-tos; from 1 (as a neg. particle) and a presumed der. of 2508 (mean. cleansed); impure (cer., mor. [lewd] or spec. [doemonic]): - foul, unclean.

And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. Acts 10:15

Katharizo (g2511) kath-ar-id'-zo; to cleanse (lit. or fig.): - (make) clean (-se), purge, purify.

This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven. Acts 10:16

Later, after Peter had been CONVINCED that pigs and Cornelius HATH been PURIFIED:

And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him. Acts 10:25

Notice that Cornelius HATH BEEN PURIFIED or Peter would not have TOUCHED him, would not have gone into the house and would NOT have preached the SAME Gospel Jesus Commanded Peter to preach to ALL NATIONS.

But (1) Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man. Acts 10:26

And as (2) he talked with him, (3) he went in, and found many that were come together. Acts 10:27

And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean. Acts 10:28

ALL of the Gentiles, whether they believed or not HATH BEEN PURIFIED by God's declaration. That means that they are ceremonially clean and the Jews can preach to them and baptize them.

All Gentiles, whether embraced by the Spirit which, amazingly, produced WORDS, HATH BEEN PURIFIED.

When this was settled, Peter asked why he was sent for and Cornelius said:

Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God. Acts 10:33

Cornelius wanted to hear what God had commanded PETER since he already knew about the baptism of John.

Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: Acts 10:34

But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. Acts 10:35

The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: ( he is Lord of all:) Acts 10:36

That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; Acts 10:37

And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. Acts 10:42

To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. Acts 10:43

All who believe in Jesus shall receive remission of sins. But only those who live righteously either JEW or GENTILE is saved by the same FAITH.

What did Jesus command the Apostles regarding the GENTILES: This was the question of Cornelius:

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Matt 28:18

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Matt 28:19
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Matt 28:20

Cornelius was not PURIFIED instantly when he BELIEVED. Cornelius was PURE by the sovereign act of GOD IN CHRIST. He was PURIFIED by the same pronouncement--before he heard about it--in the same way that--all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air were purified by THE FAITH when Jesus commanded it as the PREDESTINATED purpose of the gospel.

And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Ac.15:9

Katharizo (g2511) kath-ar-id'-zo; to cleanse (lit. or fig.): - (make) clean (-se), purge, purify.

All Jews and all Gentiles were REDEEMED and PURIFIED when Jesus Christ died on the cross and gave the Commission which was to ALL PEOPLE and not just the "predestinated Jews." Cornelius was purified at the same time that creeping things were purified by THE FAITH OF CHRIST who simply DECLARED that "It is finished."

Jesus opened the WAY through His own death, burial, inspiriting of the body, resurrection and being "translated into the heavenly kingdom." We traverse the WAY or THE FAITH through our own faith. However, we ENTER INTO the kingdom only after God cleanses our heart by faith when we submit to baptism. That is what Jesus commanded Peter and Cornelius wanted to hear the SAME MESSAGE Peter had heard.

Pigs were PURIFIED by the faith of God in Christ. As far as I know they do not have their sins remitted, are not given A holy spirit and will not go to heaven.

Cornelius was DECLARED purified long before Peter spoke to him and even TOUCHED him proving that he was PURIFIED or CLEAN before Peter began to preach the gospel and BEFORE the spirit 'embraced' Cornelius to PROVE to the other doubting Jews what God had proven to HARD HEADED PETER several times.

If purified means SALVATION then Cornelius was SAVED without hearing, being touched by the Spirit, believing or confessing in a language the doubting Jews could understand.

If the CORNELIUS DODGE is to believed then you are FORCED to believe that every single Gentile on the face of the earth SHALL BE SAVED.

IF you insist on being PURIFIED the way Cornelius was purified AND you do not obey in the same Way Cornelius was COMMANDED TO DO just as Jesus commanded Peter to baptize ALL BELIEVERS which is the first step of discipling them.

Teaching The Way

11.06.2006

@ bibleprobe

Baptism of The Holy Spirit?

This is one subject that I have been going back and fourth with.
Can any of you help me with this? But please provide scripture as
proof. Thanks.

Now my question is when we recieve Jesus we get the Holy SPirit at that time right? I did. Now is there another baptism of the Holy Spirit that some thinks? If so please provide scripture.

John tells us that Jesus will baptise with the Spirit and with Fire.

So what say you all. And please be kind to this old man. LOL I am only 45. LOL

matthew7

01.03.2007

@ Teaching The Way

Baptism of The Holy Spirit?

I know Im a little late but I just could not help but repond.

First of all Baptism is necessary. Baptisim of the HOLY SPIRIT.
You can go in a dry sinner and come up a wet one if you do not have FAITH.
It is buy faith and faith alone you are saved.

Even though numerous Scriptures speak of the importance of water baptism, adding anything to the work of the cross demeans the sacrifice of the Savior. It implies that His finished work wasnt enough. But the Bible makes clear that we are saved by grace, and grace alone,

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."
--Ephesians 2:8-9

Baptism is simply a step of obedience to the Lord following our repentance and confession of sin. Our obedience--water baptism, prayer, good works, fellowship, witnessing, etc.--issues from our faith in Christ. Salvation is not what we do, but Who we have.

"He that has the Son has life; and he that has not the Son of God has not life"
--1 John 5:12

As to the infant baptism. Whatever way you choose to look at it baptism is for the forgiveness of sin, period. Since babies do not know sin why then must you baptize them. If you feel it should be done by all means baptize all in water for it wont hurt anything. It just is not necessary. Faith is.
shelah

Matthew7





This is one subject that I have been going back and fourth with.
Can any of you help me with this? But please provide scripture as
proof. Thanks.

Now my question is when we recieve Jesus we get the Holy SPirit at that
time right? I did. Now is there another baptism of the Holy Spirit that
some thinks? If so please provide scripture.

John tells us that Jesus will baptise with the Spirit and with Fire.

So what say you all. And please be kind to this old man. LOL I am only 45.
LOL


Is Baptism Necessary?

Yes! Because Jesus said it is...

John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be
born
of water and of the Spirit
, he cannot enter into the kingdom of
God.

In Mark 16:16 Jesus says, "He that believeth and is baptized
shall
be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of
you

in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall
receive
the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter said; "every one of you"! That means infants too!


What about Infant Baptism?

If you love your child, you will Baptize your child now, as an infant!

If you belong to a denomination who falsely teaches that a child should
only be baptized after they have reached an age of reasoning, you are
not
following the Apostolic tradition, and you are actually being cruel to
your child, should anything happen to them before they are baptized.
What
I am saying here is that the apostles sprinkled or poured water over
everyone, including infants. That is an apostolic tradition.

Mothers, baptize your babies now before it is too late. They can
always
decide themselves to do a 2nd baptism when they reach their age of
reasoning. You can baptize your child yourself, together with another
Christian witness. Do it solemnly, while sprinkling or pouring water
over
your baby, and saying; "I baptize you in the name of the Father, the
Son,
and the Holy spirit". If you prefer, you can dunk an older child.
Then
serve cake and ice cream if you like. Because this is a joyful event.


From the beginning of New Testament Christianity at the Feast of
Pentecost
(Acts 2: 38-39) to our time, unbroken and uninterrupted; the church has
baptized babies. Entire households (Jewish, proselytes and Gentiles)
were
baptized by Christs original 12 Apostles (I Corinthians 1: 16; Acts
11:
14, 16: 15, 33, 18: 8) and that practice has continued with each
generation.

Augustine (354 - 430 AD), writing about this time in De Genesi Ad
Literam,
X: 39, declares, "The custom of our mother church in baptizing
infants
must not be . . . accounted needless, nor believed to be other than a
tradition of the apostles
."

Read this excellent article by Lutheran Pastor Dennis Kastens on
"infant baptism" all the way back to the Apostles
:
here

bibleprobe(R)

Homepage

Mass.,
01.04.2007

@ matthew7

matthew7 - Water Baptism is necessary!

matthew7:

Please do not try and minimize the importance of water Baptism. It too is necessary as an act of obedience to Jesus. Jesus said we MUST be baptized by both water and the Holy Spirit. Look at water Baptism as a required ticket for entry into an exclusive club.

John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Water baptism is an act of obedience to the Lord's command. It is God's promise to us that, just as water washes away dirt from our bodies Christ's shed blood washes away all filth from our soul's. All our sins.

The outward act of Water baptism itself does not forgive sins, nor can any act performed by man. Jesus took all our sins of the world upon Himself on the cross. And only by accepting Jesus as your Savior can you have your sins forgiven.

Luke 3:3-4
3And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins; 4As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

1 Peter 3:21
"....whereunto even baptism doth also now save us, (not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

So, in other words John the Baptist preached repentance, or a change of mind and heart toward God. This makes the way to the Kingdom of Heaven (Jesus).

Mothers - baptize your infants in obedience to Jesus.

If you belong to a denomination who falsely teaches that a child should only be baptized after they have reached an age of reasoning, you are not following the Apostolic tradition, and you are actually being cruel to your child, should anything happen to them before they are baptized.Don't second guess why Jesus said you (and your young children) must be baptized.

From the beginning of New Testament Christianity at the Feast of Pentecost (Acts 2: 38-39) to our time, unbroken and uninterrupted; the church has baptized babies. Entire households (Jewish, proselytes and Gentiles) were baptized by Christs original 12 Apostles (I Corinthians 1: 16; Acts 11: 14, 16: 15, 33, 18: 8) and that practice has continued with each generation.

Read this excellent article by Lutheran Pastor Dennis Kastens on "infant baptism" all the way back to the Apostles: here

Read more on Water Baptism here: http://bibleprobe.com/baptism.htm

matthew7

01.05.2007

@ bibleprobe

matthew7 - Water Baptism is necessary!

First of all I am sorry if you felt what I said was wrong. I have taken what you said in to account and done as much of my own reasearch as I could. I have to say I have changed my mind about a few of the things I said.However, I am still somewhat confused. First of all after thinking about it children do not no sin but they are intrinsically born of original sin, so I must take that back. Second, just to ask. You said :::

Jesus said we MUST be baptized
by both water and the Holy Spirit

Please refer me to the bible verse that says this,the one you quote says born why whould it not say baptize if that is what was meant.Are they
synonymous. Please clarify.

I dont really claim a denomination other than the bible and what it says. I search for truth. I don not belive any one denomination has perfect truth.
Only jesus and what he taught is perfect.

I do have to say however that my heart keeps telling me this. I do not think that if you have true faith in christ and were to die berore you compleated the water baptisim you would go to hell. What you think.

However, my heart also tells me this, and this is why I have no choice but to agree with you. If it is unessecary why did JESUS do it he was wihout sin and did not even need it. So it must have been an example. Logically this is the only conclusion one can make. Thank you for sparking my search for truth.

Matt7


matthew7:

Please do not try and minimize the importance of water Baptism. It too is
necessary as an act of obedience to Jesus. Jesus said we MUST be baptized
by both water and the Holy Spirit. Look at water Baptism as a required
ticket for entry into an exclusive club.

John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born
of water and of the Spirit
, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Water baptism is an act of obedience to the Lord's command. It is God's
promise to us that, just as water washes away dirt from our bodies
Christ's shed blood washes away all filth from our soul's. All our sins.

The outward act of Water baptism itself does not forgive sins, nor can any
act performed by man. Jesus took all our sins of the world upon Himself on
the cross. And only by accepting Jesus as your Savior can you have your
sins forgiven.

Luke 3:3-4
3And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism
of repentance for the remission of sins
; 4As it is written in the
book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying
in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths
straight.

1 Peter 3:21
"....whereunto even baptism doth also now save us, (not as a removal of
dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience),
through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

So, in other words John the Baptist preached repentance, or a change of
mind and heart toward God. This makes the way to the Kingdom of Heaven
(Jesus).

Mothers - baptize your infants in obedience to Jesus.

If you belong to a denomination who falsely teaches that a child should
only be baptized after they have reached an age of reasoning, you are not
following the Apostolic tradition, and you are actually being cruel to
your child, should anything happen to them before they are baptized.Don't
second guess why Jesus said you (and your young children) must be
baptized.

From the beginning of New Testament Christianity at the Feast of Pentecost
(Acts 2: 38-39) to our time, unbroken and uninterrupted; the church has
baptized babies. Entire households (Jewish, proselytes and Gentiles) were
baptized by Christs original 12 Apostles (I Corinthians 1: 16; Acts 11:
14, 16: 15, 33, 18: 8) and that practice has continued with each
generation.

Read this excellent article by Lutheran Pastor Dennis Kastens on "infant
baptism" all the way back to the Apostles:
here

Read more on Water Baptism here:
http://bibleprobe.com/baptism.htm

                                                                              
                                                      
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